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Model No Shows

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Why you hoggin the Chloraphorm??? Geez your just greedy  lol

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Alyssa, I'm not going to respond with an incident-by-incident discussion of the issues Rachel raised, but I will make three points:]

1.  Yes, when a photographer is not forthcoming with information needed by the model, it's entirely acceptable to not do the shoot.  Clearly advance notice is called for, but when "the advance" isn't feasible, or the model waits until the last minute for the photographer to come through with information that there is no reason not give, something that looks like "flaking" can happen through very little fault of the model.

2.  Rachel's point, more broadly, is that models are not the only team members who flake.  Photographers routinely do (ask any traveling model), and even *gasp!* makeup artists have been known to.

3.  Rachel is one of the best, most reliable and most knowledgeable models I know - and I know a hell of a lot of models.  When she says something, you can take it to the bank.

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Rachel Jay
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Alyssa C Cosmetic Maven wrote:

Car accidents and higways being shut down are understandable as long as you call as soon as you see difficulties. Here how it should go,

Right.  I've been doing this long enough.  You don't have to tell me how it should go.  But I'll humor your anyway.  In just a sec...

1. If you read what I said, you'd have seen that the no-phone-number-given instance was when I started modeling (FYI, that was back in May 2006--the shoot in question was when I was living at my inlaws, which means it was between July 2006 and Feb 2007, but it was over the summer, so I'm guessing it was July or Aug).
2. Again, if you read what I said, you'd have seen that I asked numerous times for the photographers contact info but never got it.  He had my phone number, because I gave it to him without being asked, but I never got his.  I figured since he had my number, it was ok--I knew where we were meeting so no biggie--and booked the shoot.
3. Yup, shit happens.  Unfortunately, I found out after my nearly 2 hour drive to the shoot location, 30 minute walk around the location, and 45 minute drive home (and $25 parking), that the photographer had waited around for 15 minutes and then left, and that he hadn't bothered to bring my phone number with him to call me in case I hadn't shown.  Oh well.  Lesson learned.  On my end at least.

Ok, onto your way...

Alyssa C Cosmetic Maven wrote:

You and a Photographer book a shoot, you ask what the concept is and what you need to wear and who is doing your hair. If he or she will not give you an answer give it a day or two because sometimes people need to think abit to get creative. Call back after the two days. Now what I should of put first was before you say yes do a background check on the people who want you to work. Ask people who have worked with them what they are like. Now if after your second call they do not call back wait one more day to get a call then make you decision but sometimes really good photographers get held up with work then call an apologize for not calling back.. Do not say yes to anything right off the bat is what alot of models do. [item removed for further comment in a moment] You never book anything not do your homework and just duck out. Thats your fault for not palnning. If a photographer will not tell you any info and give you  hard time then cancel but cancel in a proferssional time. I tell the same thing to my students in my workshops. If you cancel the day of or minutes of because you want to back out you better have a very good legit reason. If you flake out and you do not show it is your action thus it is your fault for the photographer is there like he had planned waiting for you. Like I stated above accidents, highways out, kids sick totally understandable but the day of a shoot deciding " well I dont feel comfortable" and you cancel, you just marked yourself as a flake.

Ok, that's great.  Slightly disjointed, but I follow you I guess.

Now here's how I do things... which should be noted is done in writing only (or with follow-up emails after phone calls if the other person requires them).  That way, I have an easy to reference record of what we discussed and what we agreed upon.  I've learned (the hard way, unfortunately) that that's important to have.

Anyway, a photographer contacts me to do a shoot.  If there's no information provided about the concept, location, date/time, payment, and team, I ask those questions.  This is not "booking a shoot".  This is beginning the scheduling and negotiating process.  At this point, in my calendar, nothing is written down--I have work to do and info to collect before I consider a shoot booked.

While I'm waiting to hear back, or before I answer if the appropriate (and necessary) info is present, I work on checking references.  I outlined that whole process here, so I won't go into it in this post.  If everything checks out, I move on to working on scheduling/negotiating further.  If references don't check out, a simple, "thank you, but I'm not interested" is the response they get.

Moving on to the scheduling/negotiating further part, I get as many details as possible.  Date, time, location, amount of time I'm to be on set, payment (whether it be cash or number of photos to expect along with delivery date), wardrobe (and who's supplying), hair and makeup (and who will be on set to handle that, if anyone, as well as who is paying those people)... all of that needs to be worked on in advance and agreed upon by BOTH myself and the photographer before I will consider a shoot booked.  I'm not going to go into details on negotiations and stuff, because that's all case-by-case.  So that's it.

Oh, no, wait.  Before I consider a shoot booked I need the following information (and I always explicitly state that if I don't get this information, I do not consider the shoot booked and will schedule other work if the opportunity presents itself): phone number where I can reach the photographer the day of the shoot, and the location or meeting place address.  Without that info, I absolutely will not book a shoot. 

Once a shoot is booked, I go through a pretty intensive preparation process, which I talk about here.  Most importantly I do 2 things.  First, about 3 days before a shoot, I send out a confirmation message in which I outline everything we've agreed on, give the address and time I have for meeting up, give my phone number, and say "please confirm all of this with me by [time] on [date] or I will consider our shoot cancelled and may book with someone else".  More often than not, I get a response within the very reasonable time frame I've specified (it is usually about 24 hours before our scheduled shoot).  And second, the day of the shoot, I call the photographer before I leave my house to let him/her know I'm on my way and approximately how much time it will take for me to arrive. 

So that's how I do it. 

Alyssa C Cosmetic Maven wrote:

Just because one side  does not plan properly does not give you any excuse to be a flake You keep it professional people will see you as that no questions..

It kinda sounds like you're calling me a flake (oh, no, wait, you did, above this, because I backed out a shoot where things were drastically changed on me 2 days before and the photographer didn't want to go back to the original plan per my suggestion), but I'll let that slide.  Because I'm nice like that.

Sure, poor planning doesn't give someone an excuse to flake out.  But poor planning and poor communication may be the cause.  There's a difference. 

Oh, and regarding the above removed piece of garbage comment:

Alyssa C Cosmetic Maven wrote:

If you want to bring someone with you to feel more comfortable and they say no BIG ALARM TO GET OUT.

That's utter, total, and complete fear-mongering bullshit.  The only reason to not shoot is if you don't feel comfortable.  Someone declining an additional stranger (whom they can't check references on) on set is NOT an alarm, let alone a "BIG ALARM".  All that means is they don't want to have to worry about the extra liability a stranger they don't know presents on set.  Things could get broken, someone could get hurt, things could get stolen... taking precautions to prevent stuff like that from happening doesn't mean someone is a big bad rapist-murderer out to kill your body, chop it into little pieces, and then serve you with a nice Chianti and some fava beans. 

In fact, some of the most professional photographers I've worked with over the past 6 years have very strict no-escort policies.  And after having my fair share of problems with other models' rude, sticky-fingered escorts, I can certainly understand why.

Rachel Jay
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Rachel Jay
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Top Re: Model No Shows

Emeritus wrote:

Alyssa, I'm not going to respond with an incident-by-incident discussion of the issues Rachel raised, but I will make three points:]

1.  Yes, when a photographer is not forthcoming with information needed by the model, it's entirely acceptable to not do the shoot.  Clearly advance notice is called for, but when "the advance" isn't feasible, or the model waits until the last minute for the photographer to come through with information that there is no reason not give, something that looks like "flaking" can happen through very little fault of the model.

2.  Rachel's point, more broadly, is that models are not the only team members who flake.  Photographers routinely do (ask any traveling model), and even *gasp!* makeup artists have been known to.

3.  Rachel is one of the best, most reliable and most knowledgeable models I know - and I know a hell of a lot of models.  When she says something, you can take it to the bank.

Roger, you made my day.  Seriously smile

And for the record, one of the most flaky sets of people I've dealt with in this industry has been MUAs.  Now that I've found a reliable one, I treat her like the queen she is, because not only is she reliable, but she's extremely talented, she practices sanitary makeup (you'd think that wouldn't be an issue but... :shudders: it is), she knows her shit, and... let's face it, she is worth her weight in diamonds (forget gold--that's selling her way short).

Rachel Jay
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I agree alot of MUA are horrible and thats why I am pushing more state licensing for MUA. When I teach and certify they have to go through practical and written test with me. I get even more mad when I see a person claiming to ne a MUA and its just embarassing never mind the gawd aweful You Tube video!!

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Alyssa C Cosmetic Maven wrote:

I agree alot of MUA are horrible and thats why I am pushing more state licensing for MUA. When I teach and certify they have to go through practical and written test with me. I get even more mad when I see a person claiming to ne a MUA and its just embarassing never mind the gawd aweful You Tube video!!

Do you have a link to the video, I like to watch videos.

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185 Photos
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Normally, I just keep their paid in full retainer and go have a relaxing day

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185 Photos wrote:

Normally, I just keep their paid in full retainer and go have a relaxing day

Hey Mike, next time someone flakes on you, use that relaxing day to fix your web site! smile

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lol oh heck no those videos make my eyes burn seeing people claiming to be MUA as they poke there eyes out trying to put on liner with a bathroom scene!!!! LOL

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Alyssa C Cosmetic Maven wrote:

lol oh heck no those videos make my eyes burn seeing people claiming to be MUA as they poke there eyes out trying to put on liner with a bathroom scene!!!! LOL

Alyssa, would you mind if I attempt to translate the above into a recognizable form of English, comprehendable by the masses? Without grammar, punctuation, and spelling it resembles a form of hieroglyphics, or streaming consciousness, not easy to follow. I am well versed in Ebonics, and am mastering Text Speak, but your method of commmunication is neither. Is English your native language?

  tongue 

LOL Oh, heck no! Those videos make my eyes burn. I'm viewing people who claim to be MUAs, while they poke the model's eyes out when they attempt to apply eyeliner during a bathroom scene!!!! LOL


And back to my corner to snort more chloroform.   zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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Rachel Jay
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Alyssa C Cosmetic Maven wrote:

I agree alot of MUA are horrible and thats why I am pushing more state licensing for MUA. When I teach and certify they have to go through practical and written test with me. I get even more mad when I see a person claiming to ne a MUA and its just embarassing never mind the gawd aweful You Tube video!!

Glad that's all you got out of everything I wrote...  hmm

Rachel Jay
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My Style Blog: Suburban Style Challenge

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