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Red Flags - Model Profiles

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Peter Flanagan
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Photographer
Downers Grove, Illinois
238 Posts

Top Red Flags - Model Profiles

Some things I have found to be "red flags" to look for in model profiles:

- Profiles written in the 3rd Person - just too weird.

- Model nicknames that include "X" or "69" or "Miss, Ms" should all be avoided by photographers.  Again, to weird.

- Models that say they expect a CD that day should be avoided.  It's bad enough that they don't understand workflow, but they compound their stupidity with arrogance by making such demands.

- Models that claim that they reserve the right to bring an escort should be shunned as well.  To them I say that I reserve the right to bring a gun and shoot your escort if he gets out of line.

- Models who report that all their offers will be filtered through their "managers"are no-no's too, unless, of course, the manager has a hand full of cash money with him.

- Models who have pix in their profiles of their wedding day, or mugging it up with their boyfriends must be shunned.

The list goes on, but I'm on my way to Dunkin Donuts.

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Rachel Jay
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Female Model
Hoffman Estates, Illinois
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404 Posts

Top Re: Red Flags - Model Profiles

MI's got a GREAT guide to writing profiles that touches on some of this stuff and why it's bad:

I also re-wrote the blog that is linked in that article and posted it on Examiner:

Rachel Jay
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Lumigraphics
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Photographer
Lansing, Michigan
749 Posts

Top Re: Red Flags - Model Profiles

Third person? Who cares.

Miss Somebody- some of the best models I have worked with are "Miss" something or other.

The others actually matter.

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John Rayner
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Photographer
Rapid City, South Dakota
1325 Posts

Top Re: Red Flags - Model Profiles

Peter Flanagan wrote:

- Models who have pix in their profiles of their wedding day, or mugging it up with their boyfriends must be shunned.

Pretty good list, except for one modifier. The above item only applies to "experienced" models. Any decent photo will help a photographer decide on a models look. The number of shoots as a "model" will help a photographer determine if they are actually worth the time to shoot.

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A M Johnson
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Photographer
Las Vegas, Nevada
394 Posts

Top Re: Red Flags - Model Profiles

Peter Flanagan wrote:

Some things I have found to be "red flags" to look for in model profiles

- Model nicknames that include "Miss, Ms" should all be avoided by photographers.  Again, to weird.

I disagree. For example: Miss Redd is a fun, real person who I would be honored to call 'friend'.

Other than that, I generally agree.

Web Site and blog at Cafe1956.com Follow me on Twitter I'm shooting mostly film these days...

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Miss Redd
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Female Model
Logan, Utah
25 Posts

Top Re: Red Flags - Model Profiles

Why thank you so much Andy! I am honored to call you friend!
To be honest, my name started out as mis-read, because people were constantly mis-reading my intentions. However mis-read was to "wierd" for people to accept as a statement AND a name, so I caved to the popular notion that my name should be... Miss Redd.
I hope no-one reads anything more into this statement than was meant, otherwise, I would once again be ... mis-read.

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John Rayner
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Rapid City, South Dakota
1325 Posts

Top Re: Red Flags - Model Profiles

Miss Redd wrote:

Why thank you so much Andy! I am honored to call you friend!
To be honest, my name started out as mis-read, because people were constantly mis-reading my intentions. However mis-read was to "wierd" for people to accept as a statement AND a name, so I caved to the popular notion that my name should be... Miss Redd.
I hope no-one reads anything more into this statement than was meant, otherwise, I would once again be ... mis-read.

I tried, and I tried, but I couldn't find any hidden meaning or inuendo to miss-read!

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Curtis Wood
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Photographer
Logan, Utah
1638 Posts

Top Re: Red Flags - Model Profiles

-It is very easy to misread Miss Redd.

-Yes.... she is complicated.

:-)

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Mary Poppins, I ain't!

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John Rayner
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Photographer
Rapid City, South Dakota
1325 Posts

Top Re: Red Flags - Model Profiles

Curtis Wood wrote:

-It is very easy to misread Miss Redd.

-Yes.... she is complicated.

:-)

Aren't they all? 

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Farenell Photography
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Photographer
Glens Falls / Albany, New York
32 Posts

Top Re: Red Flags - Model Profiles

Peter Flanagan wrote:

Some things I have found to be "red flags" to look for in model profiles:

- Profiles written in the 3rd Person - just too weird.

- Model nicknames that include "X" or "69" or "Miss, Ms" should all be avoided by photographers.  Again, to weird.

- Models that say they expect a CD that day should be avoided.  It's bad enough that they don't understand workflow, but they compound their stupidity with arrogance by making such demands.

- Models that claim that they reserve the right to bring an escort should be shunned as well.  To them I say that I reserve the right to bring a gun and shoot your escort if he gets out of line.

- Models who report that all their offers will be filtered through their "managers"are no-no's too, unless, of course, the manager has a hand full of cash money with him.

- Models who have pix in their profiles of their wedding day, or mugging it up with their boyfriends must be shunned.

The list goes on, but I'm on my way to Dunkin Donuts.

These would in no way bother me.

What WOULD concern me is what kind of communication vibe I get from them? Is there a good back in forth or does getting a response feel like I'm pulling teeth? Have they picked up the phone even if its "hey, are we still on for tomorrow? Does it feel like I'm more working for them or does it feel more like an equal collaboration (95% of my shoots are collaborations even if I hire them)?

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SLE Photography
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Arnold, Maryland
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2567 Posts

Top Re: Red Flags - Model Profiles

The escort discussion has been moved HERE.  Yes, it was brought up as a "red flag," but the REASONS for people calling it that go in their own thread.

Rachel mentioned THIS ARTICLE here on MI about do's and don'ts for profiles, and this is excerpted from that article on the escort topic & profiles:

#  Escorts: some photographers allow them, some don't. Making a big issue about them if you want one, like the nudes thing, only makes you look like a problem. If you will not work without an escort put in the simple one liner, "I only work with an escort." Nothing else, no justifications, no reasons. If an escort is negotiable (for instance if you don't require one for a studio shoot with an MUA) put in, "I may ask for an escort to be present." That's it.

Whether or not you use escorts, be sure to do your due diligence and check out these screening tips:

Due Diligence
Safety in Internet Modeling

# Be honest about escorts. If you want one work with photographers who allow it. Don't use them as a "screening process" by asking for them in your profile to see if photographers are "ok" with them. That not only won't help you stay safe or assure you're working with pros, it will also make you look dishonest. Don't "forget" to mention them and then show up with one.

I am a Model Insider site admin, please feel free to PM me with any site related issues, or for faster response contact our team via the Helpdesk

James Glendinning / SilverLight Esoterica Photography / SLE Photography

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DarcieK
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Female Model
Regina
9 Posts

Top Re: Red Flags - Model Profiles

Peter Flanagan wrote:

Some things I have found to be "red flags" to look for in model profiles:

- Profiles written in the 3rd Person - just too weird.

- Model nicknames that include "X" or "69" or "Miss, Ms" should all be avoided by photographers.  Again, to weird.

- Models that say they expect a CD that day should be avoided.  It's bad enough that they don't understand workflow, but they compound their stupidity with arrogance by making such demands.

- Models that claim that they reserve the right to bring an escort should be shunned as well.  To them I say that I reserve the right to bring a gun and shoot your escort if he gets out of line.

- Models who report that all their offers will be filtered through their "managers"are no-no's too, unless, of course, the manager has a hand full of cash money with him.

- Models who have pix in their profiles of their wedding day, or mugging it up with their boyfriends must be shunned.

The list goes on, but I'm on my way to Dunkin Donuts.

I agree on almost all accounts except for the having a "Miss" in the name. Almost all pin-up models have a Miss In front.

~Be true yourself, that's the only true way to be~

~*DarcieK*~

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Brent Hampton
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Photographer
Wenatchee, Washington
240 Posts

Top Re: Red Flags - Model Profiles

Potential models that say they have 6+ years of experience but are sending cell phone pics.

Potential models that want to bring boyfriends as escourts to meetings at public restaurants.

I agree that communication vibe is very important  do you allways have to initate contact? Do you have to ask over and over for relavant information ect. Are they objective and professional when you talk with them.

New models or models with "some experience" that only model for pay.

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Aruna Advaney
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Female Model
Naperville, Illinois
56 Posts

Top Re: Red Flags - Model Profiles

Dare2 be Photography wrote:

Potential models that say they have 6+ years of experience but are sending cell phone pics.

Potential models that want to bring boyfriends as escourts to meetings at public restaurants.

I agree that communication vibe is very important  do you allways have to initate contact? Do you have to ask over and over for relavant information ect. Are they objective and professional when you talk with them.

New models or models with "some experience" that only model for pay.

Given that the profile asks models to fill out the compensation part, selecting "for pay" is not a red flag. The selection simply lets viewers know - viewers who are voluntarily reading the profile - that he/she is no longer interested in TF.
If you don't think the model is worthy of being paid, well...no one is asking you to work with said model or view the profile.

If an inexperienced model were to solicit photographers to pay him/her, then that may be considered a red flag.

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Brent Hampton
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Photographer
Wenatchee, Washington
240 Posts

Top Re: Red Flags - Model Profiles

[New models or models with "some experience" that only model for pay.

Given that the profile asks models to fill out the compensation part, selecting "for pay" is not a red flag. The selection simply lets viewers know - viewers who are voluntarily reading the profile - that he/she is no longer interested in TF.
If you don't think the model is worthy of being paid, well...no one is asking you to work with said model or view the profile.

If an inexperienced model were to solicit photographers to pay him/her, then that may be considered a red flag.

yes my statement refered to new, inexperienced models  its not that pay cannot be involved   but "pay only" is extreem  on the reverse side  if someone is paying a no experienced model big bucks  that should be a red flag for them that its something explicid, possibly fetish(no experienced really needed for a bondage theme) or outright porn.

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Rachel Jay
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Female Model
Hoffman Estates, Illinois
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404 Posts

Top Re: Red Flags - Model Profiles

Dare2 be Photography wrote:

[New models or models with "some experience" that only model for pay.

Given that the profile asks models to fill out the compensation part, selecting "for pay" is not a red flag. The selection simply lets viewers know - viewers who are voluntarily reading the profile - that he/she is no longer interested in TF.
If you don't think the model is worthy of being paid, well...no one is asking you to work with said model or view the profile.

If an inexperienced model were to solicit photographers to pay him/her, then that may be considered a red flag.

yes my statement refered to new, inexperienced models  its not that pay cannot be involved   but "pay only" is extreem  on the reverse side  if someone is paying a no experienced model big bucks  that should be a red flag for them that its something explicid, possibly fetish(no experienced really needed for a bondage theme) or outright porn.

Brent, while MI and similar sites may not be full of agency standard models, it's worth noting that in the "real" (as in non-Internet) modeling world, MANY aspiring (agency-standard) models walk in the door at an open call, get signed, and get their first paid gig with ZERO experience.

And it's worth noting that the second shoot I booked off OMP in May 2006 (my second shoot ever) was a paid shoot.  Non-nude, non-fetish.

Rachel Jay
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Kevlar Vest Girl
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Photographer
Chicago, Illinois
1001 Posts

Top Re: Red Flags - Model Profiles

Dare2 be Photography wrote:


yes my statement refered to new, inexperienced models  its not that pay cannot be involved   but "pay only" is extreem  on the reverse side  if someone is paying a no experienced model big bucks  that should be a red flag for them that its something explicid, possibly fetish(no experienced really needed for a bondage theme) or outright porn.

One of the reasons the people around here think you are a pervert with a camera, is that you never seem to consider the myriad other genres available to models, nor do you ever consider male models in your posts. In your posts, in general, you always focus in on pictures involving nudity and sex. Did you know, based on focus group surveys, that far and away the most revered pictures are those depicting warm family scenarios. People respond way more favorably to little kids having their noses licked by golden retriever puppies, than they do to lesbians having leather dildos shoved up their assholes. You might want to consider looking a little bit beyond the end of your dick when thinking up your forum posts.

Just a thought.

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Brent Hampton
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Wenatchee, Washington
240 Posts

Top Re: Red Flags - Model Profiles

is that you never seem to consider the myriad other genres available to models,
nor do you ever consider male models in your posts.
In your posts, in general, you always focus in on pictures involving nudity and sex. Did you know, based on focus group surveys, that far and away the most revered pictures are those depicting warm family scenarios. People respond way more favorably to little kids having their noses licked by golden retriever puppies, than they do to lesbians having leather dildos shoved up their assholes. You might want to consider looking a little bit beyond the end of your dick when thinking up your forum posts.
Just a thought.
********
What does this have to do with this thread?

I actually do consider many other genera's  nudity in itself helps me define a parameter  a model that will do nudes lets say  is much less likely to have issues with generas less edgy I am interested in.
its not as difficult to find out information about  portrature or wedding pictures  but theres allready people doing that. Its much more difficult to get objective answers about these touchier subjects your impression is a perfect example.
just because I am interested in nude content doesn't make me a perve.


I have no studio or budget  and it limits my options. I find that females  have a better chance of being able to do their own hair and makeup and tend to have a wider wardrobe  would I work with males models yes.  would I work with transgender also yes (that issue came up recently) I would also work with models under age  but of course content would be age appropriate.

actually the shoots I have done so far have had nothing to do with glamour or nudity  and even if I did work with a model that would  my focus  is actually  in the implied  or charactor situational Genera's and not even necessarily nude.
I would love to  do a shoot that involved  sheets because its very versitile and beautiful  and fit a wide range of confidence levels.  and model looks.
do I want to take pictures of some girl shaking her ass at my lens.. no..
If I was asked if I would photograph a couple in some intimate poses the answer would  be yes. but that would be above my photographic goals. I just dont see nudity and sex as evil like you seem to I am actually kind of logical about it.

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Brent Hampton
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Wenatchee, Washington
240 Posts

Top Re: Red Flags - Model Profiles

I can definatly understand a "pay only" for a model with a nice little resume  even as a hobbiest.
it just hits me as odd  for a new model or an inexperiences one to list it as pay only

lets reverse it,,  would a model  hire  a photographer with  no experience pay only?

I am working from the TFCD perspective,  if I was doing some professional work and was hiring a model  I would be after a specific look or quality.

[[If an inexperienced model were to solicit photographers to pay him/her, then that may be considered a red flag.]]
Thats what I am refering to.

a model with skills or a nice resume   I can understand.
a no/low experienced model  posting pay only here would seem... (whats a good description?)  jaded? or full of themself?

Rachel, I'm not as familiar with how agencies work but I would think they would be along similar lines  they would  size up a model look wise and skill wise  and determine her worth as a model.     It would not even suprise me if agencies had something similar to a TFCD or reduced rate to get their models experience or have  their own trainers and photographers to work with their models.
Theres allways going to be that "youve got the look I need" kind of hiring

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Emeritus
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Las Vegas, Nevada
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1191 Posts

Top Re: Red Flags - Model Profiles

Dare2 be Photography wrote:


Rachel, I'm not as familiar with how agencies work but I would think they would be along similar lines  they would  size up a model look wise and skill wise  and determine her worth as a model. 

Agencies accept and reject models almost solely on the basis of one thing:  looks.  (There are also "disqualifiers" - living too far away, demonstrated unreliability, poor ability to communicate with clients and such.)  Models are NEVER taken into an agency based on "experience" or skills.  (They may be taken based on a track record and existing client base, which is different.)

The photographers who are hired by fashion and commercial clients are hired in part because they have the skills to get what they need regardless of the skills of the model.  That's not to say that commercial photographers don't value and enjoy working with talented or skilled models - they do - but it's not necessary to get the job done.  Quite often the client (or ad agency) hires the model, and the photographer gets no input into the process.  The client and agency generally have little knowledge of the skills of the model - just what they look like.

Dare2 be Photography wrote:


   It would not even suprise me if agencies had something similar to a TFCD or reduced rate to get their models experience or have  their own trainers and photographers to work with their models.

Not quite.

An agency may get (or give) training to a model on specialized skills like a runway walk, but not so much on photographic modeling.  They do have available "test photographers" whose job is to get useful portfolio pictures from the model, and they get some experience from that process, but "training" is not the primary purpose.

As others have noted, it's entirely normal for an agency to get a new model, take a Polaroid or two and start sending her around to clients.  Lots and lots of models have been hired based on a 30-second photo shoot at their agency.

And to add to the general consensus:  No, it's not a red flag because someone wants to be paid for what they do.  They may or may not compete successfully, but models at any level of experience are certainly welcome to seek compensation.  Nothing at all wrong with it, other than it may keep them from getting the kind of work they need early in their careers.  Or may not.  Sometimes it works just fine.

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Ana J
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Female Model
Brantford, N/A
6 Posts

Top Re: Red Flags - Model Profiles

Peter Flanagan wrote:

Some things I have found to be "red flags" to look for in model profiles:

- Profiles written in the 3rd Person - just too weird.

- Model nicknames that include "X" or "69" or "Miss, Ms" should all be avoided by photographers.  Again, to weird.

- Models that say they expect a CD that day should be avoided.  It's bad enough that they don't understand workflow, but they compound their stupidity with arrogance by making such demands.

- Models that claim that they reserve the right to bring an escort should be shunned as well.  To them I say that I reserve the right to bring a gun and shoot your escort if he gets out of line.

- Models who report that all their offers will be filtered through their "managers"are no-no's too, unless, of course, the manager has a hand full of cash money with him.

- Models who have pix in their profiles of their wedding day, or mugging it up with their boyfriends must be shunned.

The list goes on, but I'm on my way to Dunkin Donuts.

I do not really agree with the whole no escort thing either as a model. If I am meeting someone for the first time especially some one I have never met in person before I am bring someone to the shoot with me. It is very easy to lie about who you are and steal images of the net and create a profile on any site that is like this or MM so I think having an escort especially when dealing with internet work. Now I may do things differently when it comes to my escort I provide full references from other photographers with all their contacts on it and everything, but I would still not attend a shoot that was arranged through the internet without bringing someone with me. Male or female!

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Aruna Advaney
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Female Model
Naperville, Illinois
56 Posts

Top Re: Red Flags - Model Profiles

Ana J wrote:



I do not really agree with the whole no escort thing either as a model. If I am meeting someone for the first time especially some one I have never met in person before I am bring someone to the shoot with me. It is very easy to lie about who you are and steal images of the net and create a profile on any site that is like this or MM so I think having an escort especially when dealing with internet work. Now I may do things differently when it comes to my escort I provide full references from other photographers with all their contacts on it and everything, but I would still not attend a shoot that was arranged through the internet without bringing someone with me. Male or female!

I discovered Model Mayhem on the Ford Models' forums on their MySpace page. I started a thread about this topic, and two seasoned regulars on the Ford Models' forums (one model-turned photographer, and one aspiring model/actress) gave me the same advice.

Little did I know what a hostile and controversial issue it would turn out to be in the internet modeling world.
   hmm

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Rachel Jay
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Female Model
Hoffman Estates, Illinois
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404 Posts

Top Re: Red Flags - Model Profiles

Ana J wrote:


I do not really agree with the whole no escort thing either as a model. If I am meeting someone for the first time especially some one I have never met in person before I am bring someone to the shoot with me. It is very easy to lie about who you are and steal images of the net and create a profile on any site that is like this or MM so I think having an escort especially when dealing with internet work. Now I may do things differently when it comes to my escort I provide full references from other photographers with all their contacts on it and everything, but I would still not attend a shoot that was arranged through the internet without bringing someone with me. Male or female!

There's a whole thread on escorts here: http://www.modelinsider.com/forums/topic?id=2542

Let's avoid turning this thread into one as well.

Rachel Jay
My Modeling Blog: Thoughts of a Hobbyist Model
My Style Blog: Suburban Style Challenge

I'm the Internet Modeling Forum Host here at MI smile
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John Rayner
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Photographer
Rapid City, South Dakota
1325 Posts

Top Re: Red Flags - Model Profiles

Rachel Jay wrote:

Ana J wrote:


I do not really agree with the whole no escort thing either as a model. If I am meeting someone for the first time especially some one I have never met in person before I am bring someone to the shoot with me. It is very easy to lie about who you are and steal images of the net and create a profile on any site that is like this or MM so I think having an escort especially when dealing with internet work. Now I may do things differently when it comes to my escort I provide full references from other photographers with all their contacts on it and everything, but I would still not attend a shoot that was arranged through the internet without bringing someone with me. Male or female!

There's a whole thread on escorts here: http://www.modelinsider.com/forums/topic?id=2542

Let's avoid turning this thread into one as well.

+123458426898742556847

Do you take an escort when you go to work in a fast food joint?  You meet strangers there too.

How about to a rest stop on the highway?  You meet strangers there too.

Or in the changing room at a department store? You meet strangers there too.

You must need 2 escorts to go change at the gym. You meet strangers there too.

I would be willing to bet the statistics are greater for those places having had more "trouble" than with a photographer. We just steal your soul.

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ImageArt
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Photographer
Rockledge, Florida
87 Posts

Top Re: Red Flags - Model Profiles

For the most part escorts or crossing guards or hand holders are not there to protect anything.
First , I'll share I have never been asked (when scheduling a model for a shoot) if an escort (fireman , postman or police ) could come to the shoot- never.

ALL escort required models have all bailed out on a session , certainly its fine with me. Emails , messages , pm it's all for the purpose of getting information and developing some level of comfort.  I shoot in broad day light,  on a city sidewalk out in the open. Did I mention I only work with models that can communicate , schedule , have transportation , have a car, Do not live with Mommy , have a sense of fashion and actually enjoy shooting. So for me in my experiences the escort thing never really comes up.
Any of the wanna " model " , model's having no common sense , afraid of their own shadow, cynical , skeptical or any other crap ( as thats what it is - simply immature crap ) these fuglies are wormed to the surface in email.  They're very easy to spot , just look at what they wrote - will not , do not , don't ask all throught their portfolio - if you can call it that. More proper would be their self bio of stupity. So all in all , the verbiage picture tells the story. And it screams so loud. I Love the ports that have no nudes checked , written in the port no nudity, You click on their images and viola 50% are nude , 39% are strongly implied and the rest is cell phone images!  Ok, so sticking to escort issue  , but its easy to stray into the whole port issue as they are close to all our hearts and Fun to speak of. In Final  , so all the stupidity aside grow up , close your port and let the other Girl get the session scheduling email. As the person that feels the portfolio is better handled by another , those that have others answer for them , Yet still she asked  " whats a resume' " ? Or "  I require a cd of all image at the end of the shoot and other foolishness - I'll PASS on " those models",  Next.
The models that are actually working shooting and repeating assignments , moving forward have no time for this escort nonsensical bullshit.   And i have been told this by the model(s), so not worry for me - as I'm shooting her/them again next week.  She nor I mentioned an escort(s) and neither one of us was stabbed , slashed , bashed or throttled up or down.